Téma: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE

2.6.2006 |  kruel duel
 
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Od: Cleveland
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Dátum: 26.11.2015
Od: Cleveland
Predmet: RE: FINANÈNÉ OHODNOTENIE
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Dátum: 22.11.2015
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Dátum: 20.11.2015
Od: Antonia
Predmet: RE: FINANÈNÉ OHODNOTENIE
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Dátum: 20.11.2015
Od: Rebecca
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Dátum: 20.11.2015
Od: Milan
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Od: Lyndon
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Dátum: 19.11.2015
Od: Mohammad
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Dátum: 19.11.2015
Od: Christopher
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Dátum: 19.11.2015
Od: Wilburn
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Dátum: 19.11.2015
Od: Kenton
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Dátum: 19.11.2015
Od: Andre
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Od: Evan
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Dátum: 19.11.2015
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Dátum: 19.11.2015
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Dátum: 19.11.2015
Od: Damon
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Who would I report to? http://www.floridacollegeaccess.org/the-network/ hydrocodone 300 He said: "Over the course of the past couple of years I've taken this party from being very small and from being continually mocked as being a joke and we're a serious force in British politics.

Dátum: 27.1.2015
Od: Ulysses
Predmet: RE: FINANÈNÉ OHODNOTENIE
Is there ? http://www.politicaltheology.com/blog/standinginwitness/ zopiclone tablets 3.75 mg They just don’t get it. They kicked the PlayBook, and all future tablet ventures, under the bus. Don’t hey read the press? Blogs? Social networks? PlayBook..AND phone owners are NOT amused. If I had stock in Blackberry…or whatever the shareholders will call it, would be gone the way of Nortel in this family. They had a chance..a slim one, to keep up with the tablet market…but nope…they have deemed government and corporate secure comms are the legacy bet to move forward.

Dátum: 26.1.2015
Od: Ariel
Predmet: RE: FINANÈNÉ OHODNOTENIE
I went to http://simpsonscarborough.com/resources/ sandoz generic phentermine Cesaire’s vision of historical process could come across as rather glib, with Lumumba cast as the pure prophet in the wilderness, and his betrayers as greedy neo-colonialist collaborators. But with Ejiofor at the helm, this production gives us something more.

Dátum: 26.1.2015
Od: Ruben
Predmet: RE: FINANÈNÉ OHODNOTENIE
Have you got any ? http://sacraliturgia2013-italy.com/don-bux/ order klonopin 2mg It is hard not to draw comparisons to this year. When the Queen cradles baby Prince Cambridge in the Music Room of Buckingham Palace at his christening, we too will wonder about his probable reign. That is the genius of monarchy - it represents both the links to our past and our hopes for the future.

Dátum: 8.1.2015
Od: zork
Predmet: RE: FINANÈNÉ OHODNOTENIE
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Dátum: 9.2.2009
Od: zuzka bielike
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
ahojte, ja by som k tomu vsetkemu pridala len tolko, ze mladi architekti, dizajneri a tak dalej by sa hlavne nemali bat. a nemali by ocakavat ze za prvu vizku dostanu hned 500 EUR. Pokial viem, v zahranici sa pracuje aj tak, ze prvy rok na tzv stazi sa pracuje takmer zadarmo a clovek sa uci a ziskava kontakty ... potom je uz len na nom aky je sikovny. na strane druhej nesuhlasim s horibilnymi cenami za vizualizacie pre beznych klientov (teraz mam na mysli interierovy dizajn) - takymto stylom sa nedaju ludia vychovavat k nejakemu vkusu, ked si povedia ze za zobrazenie dvoch izieb maju dat cca 400 eur ...

Dátum: 27.11.2008
Od: adult hentai sex game
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
Just Stopped by to say hi, Thanks

Dátum: 24.11.2008
Od: nike air equalon for women
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
Good WorkFavorite Site Ever! I just Bookmarked

Dátum: 26.2.2008
Od: zeman
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
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Dátum: 21.2.2008
Od: loxi
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
komora?to su ti ZUFALCI.

Dátum: 20.2.2008
Od: Cyril Citron
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
AAG: no napr. v UK maju za dumpingove tvrde pokuty stanovene ich komorou (RIBA) a hotovo. Potom ziadny zufalec nemoze ist tak uboho pod cenu ako si spominal napr. ty (ale snad vsetci mame podobnu skusenost) a klient si vybera len na zaklade kvality. Takyto system by mne osobne velmi vyhovoval. Co na to nasa komora? Mozno je to impulz aby konecne nieco urobila.

Dátum: 20.2.2008
Od: AAG
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
Myslim, ze toto je dobra tema na diskusiu, aj ked sa budem pohybovat vo vseobecnej hladine a nezameram sa na absolventov architektov. V podstate sa da suhlasit s Janovim prispevkom a taktiez sa mi pozdavalo to porovnanie cenoveho ohodnetenia v servise. Problem je vsak v niecom inom a ja ho rad pomenujem slovom "ZUFALCI". Rad by som uviedol jeden maly priklad na rodinom dome:
1. Zakaznik oslovil niekolkych architektov na vypracovanie cenovej ponuky na RD. Jednotlivych architektov si vyhladal vraj na zaklade referencii a realizacii. To znamena, ze sa mu pozdavala praca, resp. vysledok prace architekta. Ja som vydodal cenovu ponuku na zaklade honoraroveho poriadku podla cenika UNIKA vzhladom na to, ze metodicke tabulky od SKA su uplne na prd. Su to skor legislativne keci, ktore boli dosledkom zrusenia klasickeho honoraroveho cenika SKA z maja 2005 v Presove (ak sa mylim, opravte ma). Vraj bol problem s protimonopolnym uradom, ale to neviem potvrdit. Ale vratme sa k ponukam pre investora. Takze moja kompletna ponuka aj s 10% zlavou bola okolo 260 000 Sk naco investor zareagoval, ze to je prehnana ponuka a on ma ponuku za 30 000 Sk. Ked som si porovnal investicny naklad a robotu+profesie na komplet zakazke, tak mi jednoducho vyslo, ze taku cenu musel dat uplny ZUFALEC. Neskor som zistil, ze to bol dokonca architekt. Cize z toho sa da vygenerovat dosledok, ze prave architekti, inzinieri pozemneho stavitelstva si vramci konkurencie na trhu hadzu polena pod nohy. Nie je totiz normalne, aby niekto az takto podhodnotil zakazku, pretoze ludia si na tento system velmi rychlo zvyknu. Nikde v zahranici architekti nehadzu take ponukove ceny, ktore su doslova nedostojne a pribuzne doslova zobraniu. Z tejto situacie sa da vyvodit aj dalsia vec tykajuca sa absolventov a to je cena za ich pracu, ak je sef ochotny dat taku cenovu ponuku. Preto by som vyzval architektov na zamyslenie sa a apeloval na pozdvihnutie svojej hodnoty prace, aby sa eliminovali rapidne rozdiely v ponukovych cenach. Staci sa riadit napr. Honorar. poriadkom od UNIKY (prosim neberte to ako reklamu pre nich, kazdopadne je to dost dobre spracovane a aj praca je patricne ocenena.) Ak totiz sa budu cenove ponuky pohybovat v pripliznej urovni, tak bude sa musiet tomu prisposobit aj trh - a to neznamena, ze len maly investor, ale aj velky developer. Taky developer riesi vzdy svoj zamer z najvacsim ziskom. Koli zisku je ochotny zrusit aj poziarne konstrukcie, co je uz vyslovene absurdne, resp. pozadovat preriesenie koncepcie tak, aby sa tam neobjavili poziarne konstrukcie, co je tiez dobra blbost. Dalsim zamerom developera je nasekat na dane miesto tolko m2, aby z toho vytazil maximum zisku. Ulohou architekta je ale z tejto maximalnej poziadavky poriesit architekturu a samotny priestor, ktory bude sluzit hlavne ludom, cize neriesi to len tak naoko. A myslim, ze ak ma zaujem niekto, aby architekt plietol z hovna bic a dany investorsky subjekt ma zaujem na tom zarobit, tak je na mieste poziadavka spracovatela, aby si vyziadal patricny honorar, pretoze zase tu plati, ze cena sa stlaca dole. Je to taka poziadavka, ze za nic mi rychlo priprav nieco, co mozem postavit za lacne a draho predat. Takze pri vacsich developerskych projektoch sa netreba dat ucicikat sumov, ktora ma nazve milion, ked na zaklade realneho honorar cenika Vam prislucha ovela vyssia suma (za ten rozdiel v cene honoraru si mozete kupit nehnutelnost, resp. fajnove auticko alebo mozete prispiet na detsky domov, resp. tam, kde by sa prasule zisli a na druhej strane si tieto prasule ponecha investor a kupi si nehnutelnost alebo paradne auticko a nebodaj sa zahra na mecenasa a s velkou pompeznostou pozdvihne svoje ego a obdaruje deti v decaku - kazdopadne na Vas ukor - reklamu si robi zas len druha strana a ludia ho miluju a zboznuju potom :)). Taktiez treba sa zaoberat aj horarom pre profesie, ktore si vedia vyratat honorar podla m2, resp. m3. Potom nastava pre architekta dalsi boj dojednat cenu profesii, aby bol v zisku, ktory je pre neho efektivny a z ktoreho vie zaplatit aj zamestnancov (bud dobre, alebo almuznou).
Kazdopadne si treba odsledovat aj podnikanie napr. takych advokatov. Im sa ziadny urad nenavaza do ich honorarov, pretoze oni to riesia celkom elegantne formou nepisanej tichej dohody, ale zaroven si drzia svoj honorar pod palcom. Napr. taka konzultacia u advokata: u zacinajuceho advokata, ktory posobil niekolko rokov ako koncipient a teda je celkom dobre uz v obraze, sa pohybujeme od 500 sk/hod. U zabehanych advokatoch s menom sa pohybujeme na urovni 1500 - 2000 Sk a viac/hod. A celkom dobre im to funguje a dokonca overuju aj podpisi, pricom nerucia svojim majetkom za skodu. Architekt vsak musi byt poisteny a kompletne ruci za dielo ak je aj generalny projektant. Takze otazka: Kolko architektov si uctovalo za konzultacie, ked ich navstivil investor a potreboval poradit? Predpokladam, ze mizive mnozstvo a pri tom sa za poradenstvo plati a su vytvorene na to specializovane firmy, ktore to robia zo ziskovych dovodov.
Skusme si zobrat na musku lekarov. Pacient ich navstivi zo zistnych dovodov a vsetky ukony by mali byt evidovane a preplatene podla bodov. Podobne sa da nadviazat na lekarnikov a lekarne, ktore navstivi pacient zo zistnych dovodov na zaklade zakupenia liekov podla receptu od lekara, alebo zakupenie produktov vo volnom predaji. To robi lekarnam zisk a pacient sa drzi pravidla, ze s vlastnym zdravim sa neobchoduje. Tu sa mi naskyta continuita s porovnanim obchodnych zastupcov firiem v stavebnictve. Ty pridu zo zistnych dovodov za architektom a prezentuju mu svoje vyrobky a materialy osobne aj ked maju webovu stranku, ktora je mimochodom zaklad reklamy. Niektori obchodny zastupcovia su taky otravni, ze chcu riesit konkretnu zakazku stavebne a snazia sa tam cez architekta namontovat. Rozmyslam, kolko tymto obchodnym zastupcom uctuju architekti za ich navstevu a reklamu? Kazdopadne ak sa ma architekt venovat obchodnemu zastupcovi, nemoze aj robit, cize cas je bez zisku. Taktiez ziadny obchodny zastupca neponukne fixnu proviziu, aby sa oplatilo rozmyslat podla rozpoctu, kolko Vam to hodi. Investor v ekonomickych otazkach na SVK nie je blbec a bude sa snazit stlacit cenu dole. Tym padom padne aj Vasa provizia a otazne je, ci robota bude na takej urovni, aby ste sa nemuseli hanbit neskor pred investorom, koho ste mu to dohodili a ake skody ste mu sposobili.
Myslim, ze toho bolo napisaneho dost a dufam, ze sa architekti bez ohladu, ake maju vytvorene meno a reklamu skusia ujednotit hlavne podla honorarov, pretoze ak ludia dostanu priblizne porovnatelne cenove ponuky na stol, tak pochopia, ze tuto vec neporiesia za flasku a almuznu. Taktiez sa nemusia obavat ani ZUFALCI. Kazdopadne im z toho tiez kvapne a podstatne viac. Predsa je to aj o podnikani a nie len o charite. S pozdravom architekt.

Dátum: 19.2.2008
Od: Miriama Connor
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
Mozno mi niekto poradi???

co tak zakaznik.. Ja som prave v procese kupy bytu 40 km od Kosice, typicky panelakovy 3 poschodia, byt je 80m stvorcovych a ja hladam niekoho kto by to vedel premenit z panelaku do pekneho byvania (zburat niekolko stien). Kolko by som mala ocakavat zaplatit za pracu? Kedze som v zahranici, isli by o stavebny dozor, interior design, v podstate byt na kluc.

Vsetky rady su dobre, ak je tu nejake studio, alebo architekt ktory by to nasiel zaujimave, nech sa mi ozve:

mruzbacka@uss.co.uk

Dakujem!

Dátum: 15.5.2007
Od: brainwasher
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
ved tu sa nikto nebavi o cenach v servise ale o cene za pracu zamestnanca, alebo brigadnika... pokial sa zacneme bavit o cenach projekcnych prac, je to uplne niekde inde... nase naklady bez hodnoty miezd su asi na 400 sk/ hodinu (najom priestoru, HW, SW, zariadenie, tlac, kanc. potreby......)
skus si vyratat, kolko asi vyslo majitela diagnostickeho centra pre auta vybavenie a potom sa cuduj, ze preco je to take drahe...

Dátum: 11.5.2007
Od: KIWI
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
100SK ZA HODINU? BOLI STE NIEKEDY V SERVISE NA VYMENUPNEU? 500 AZ 1500SK ZA HODINU - NEVZDELANY CLOVEK S UMASTENYMI RUKAMI...TAKTO JE U NAS HODNOTENA PRACA HLAVOU A S PC...PEVNE NERVY VAM VSETKYM...

Dátum: 11.5.2007
Od: Jano
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
Téma je ešte aktuálna?
Myslím, že to tu nezaznelo, ale veď z tohoto existuje exaktné vychodisko.
- Cena za celý projekt sa generuje trhom ...
je na nositežovi zákazky za akú cenu ju získa. /alebo nezíska/
- Každá zákazka sa s určitou presnosou dá rozdeli:
a.Réžia, provízia alebo ak chcete aj ČGP - činnos generálneho projektanta
b. Zúčastnené profesie
- Každá profesia sa dá opä rozdeli na:
a. Réžiu /napr.15-20%/
b. Prácu koncepčnú - prácu zodp. projektanta.../napr. 50%/
c. Prácu pomocného projektanta, krasliča, skladača výkresov..../napr.30%/
Ak zamestnám absolventa alebo brigádnika tak po 2-3 hodinách viem čo v ňom je a akú prácu mu môžem zada bez toho, aby som to potom musel príliž opravova.
Ak vyzerá perspektívne a do budúcna mi na ňom záleží, tak mi nerobí problém mu otvorene vyčísli rozdelenie zákazky aj s hromádkou peňazí, ktoré na neho ak konkretnu prácu urobí pripadnú. V tom momente ma absolútne nezaujíma kožko mu vychádza na hodinu, alebo či to robí aj doma, ale len to, ako mi zadanú prácu zvládne a aká bude využitežnos.
Keď si zarobí 50.- na hodinu alebo 2000.- na hodinu...je to jeho vec pokiaž stíhame termín.
Potom je ešte problém "čistý peniaz". Ak treba, pri rovnej dani a odvodoch sa aj toto dá zvládnu jednoducho.
Ak vás niekto drží v nevedomosti a dáva vám povedzme 80.-na hodinu,tak buď ste slabí a šéfovi na Vás nezáleží, alebo ste dobrí a potom Vás pri takom zdierajúcom šéfovi nemá čo drža.

Dátum: 9.5.2007
Od: 007
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE

priemerne platy na slovensku v stavebnictve (aj inde):
http://www.naseplaty.sk/prehlad-platov/stavebnictvo.html

Dátum: 27.1.2007
Od: magdalena dzurilova
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
Wir suchen die Moderatore für unser Forum und wenn Sie Geld verdienen wollen.
http://derproblemloesungsweg.de/forum, bitte ins Forum gehen.

Dátum: 22.1.2007
Od: potkan
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
http://www.profesia.sk/praca/ponuky-prace/offer_details.php3?statistics=311_116&form=5dc50917185c5fd1527ba5ba51346fc7&offer_id=295553
nadhera... inzerat z profesie, linkovany tunak na archinete, pozaduju skonceneho architekta so slusnou znalostou vsetkych relevantnych programov, navrch aktivnu znalost anglictiny a znalost programovania v prostredi .NET Framework (co samotne by cloveku stacilo na nadpriemernu obzivu), vodicak, je to BA, a ponukaju nehoraznych 90 hrubeho na hodinu, ked dezider co kope tunak dole pod barakom pre jupisi ma 110 cistych a ku tomu dotovane stravne listky.
smutne je na tom to, ze je mozne, ze niekoho aj najdu....

Dátum: 22.1.2007
Od: potkan
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
http://www.profesia.sk/praca/ponuky-prace/offer_details.php3?statistics=311_116&form=5dc50917185c5fd1527ba5ba51346fc7&offer_id=295553
nadhera... inzerat z profesie, linkovany tunak na archinete, pozaduju skonceneho architekta so slusnou znalostou vsetkych relevantnych programov, navrch aktivnu znalost anglictiny a znalost programovania v prostredi .NET Framework (co samotne by cloveku stacilo na nadpriemernu obzivu), vodicak, je to BA, a ponukaju nehoraznych 90 hrubeho na hodinu, ked dezider co kope tunak dole pod barakom pre jupisi ma 110 cistych a ku tomu dotovane stravne listky.
smutne je na tom to, ze je mozne, ze niekoho aj najdu....

Dátum: 7.12.2006
Od: klidek
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
Sledujem, ze ste tu o tom vela popisali....nuda v praci?
To sa nestazujte,ze malo zarabate :-). Chcel by som len zdoraznit jeden hlavny rozdiel medzi architektom, ktory sa zamestna v ateliery a samostatnym architektom. Skuste sa zamysliet nad rozdieliom, pre a proti. Chcem poukazat na rozdiel financneho ohodnotenia. Skolu architektury ukonci vela absolventov ale mnohi nemaju odvahu fungovat samostatne.
A teraz k teme, suhlasim s optimom 100 sk/hod plusminus pre studenta ale zdoraznujem, ze je to individualne. Apropo naco je vlastne skusobna doba. Dohodnete vysku mzdy a zaroven vas sef spozna ako pracujete. Alebo to uz na slovensku nefunguje?

Dátum: 7.12.2006
Od: emo
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
v kosiciach to vyzera asi takto
ateliery su az na male vynimky uzavrete, pracuju v stalych zostavach na tom co zvladnu a nerozrastaju sa, tam sa da dostat, ked sa niekto z mladych osamostatni a uvolni sa miesto, cize tazko
platy su tam velmi rozne, ked si zamestnanec(mlady) 10-20
potom su "volnejsie miesta" - ateliery o ktorych casto pocut , ze niekoho zhanaju, o com sa tu myslim podiskutovalo dost
dalej par ludi funguje tak ze su volni a pracuju pre niekolko atelierov, prevazne na ukol, na 9o% stvanica, tam sa da zarobit podla sikovnosti, ked si dobry 30, 40/mesiac, so skusenostami a rychlostou este viac, samozrejme pri zabehnutom systeme
vacsina mladych co poznam funguju tak, ze sa snazia o vlastne akcie, ktorymi doplnaju pracu v atelieroch, neskor sa pomer obrati v prospech vlastnych akcii, odchadzaju
vo vseobecnosti vsetci nadavaju, keby som vsak dnes zavolal vsetkym co poznam, ze je robotka na tyzden za 15.000, ale o tyzden to fakt musi byt, nenajdem nikoho co by mohol ostatne prace o tyzden odsunut

Dátum: 6.12.2006
Od: Ivan
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
No comment....

Dátum: 6.12.2006
Od: pal
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
blahozelam k uspesnej firme ivan. myslim ze sa tu rozoberal skor pripad klasickeho studenta, ktory si zvizualizoval svoj prvy atelier a neadekvatne mu narastlo sebavedomie. ak je vizualizacia objednana a zaplatena, je to samostnatna cast projektu ako akakolvek ina profesia, navyse s vyhodou absolutnej trestopravnej nezodpovednosti oproti inym profesiam :) bohuzial si dnes klienti navykli na architektov chrliacich jednu 3d studiu za druhou, co sa vsak v cene za projekt nikde neobjavi, architekt mavne rukou ze to sa urobi a 50sk/hod je v tomto pripade adekvatna suma, kedze to vlastne tiez nema zaplatene...

v lepsich zahr. firmach sa pracuje napr aj tak ze ak si klient viz. zvlast nezaplati nedostane ju, kedze si kupuje projekt na dom a nie vizualizaciu.

Dátum: 6.12.2006
Od: Ivan
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
to Pal: pozri sa uz 6 rokov robim v tomto fachu pre xyz firiem a mam mam mesacne tolko zakazok ze uz si nepamatam co bolo predvcerom.takze som napisal nazor na tuto problematiku.Reagoval som na prispevok zopar riadkov dole, nic viac..Nesnazim sa urazat niekoho pracu, len ma stve to, tak ako ostatnych tu vsetko co sa tyka financneho ohodnotenia..A tvrdenie ze vizualziacie ci ine graficke spracovanie, animacie a pod su tomuto fachu vzdialene je podla mna dost zcestne..Nevkusne podany projekt, amaterske spracovanie ci uz pri sutazi, alebo inom type zakazky dokaze velmi, ale naozaj velmi pokazit celkovy dojem a dava vseobecny obraz o pristupe a profesionalite.Nevravim vsak ze toje vsetko co treba.A ked niekto tvrdi, ze to je zbytocne, pravdepodobne to nevie a nevyzna sa do toho :))

Dátum: 6.12.2006
Od: 666
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
ano, par ciar od profesistu neni iba par ciar a pokial ide o cenu, opat je to o tom ci sa najde niekto, kto je ochotny robit za menej ako ostatni

Dátum: 6.12.2006
Od: pal
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
spamatajte sa... kazdy sa tu ohana vizualizaciami akoby to bolo to najdolezitejsie na architekture. samotna vizualizacia ako taka ma s architekturou ovela menej spolocne ako klasicke profesie, kedze v tomto pripade ide o cisto "otrocku a programatorsku" cinnost typu i say jump you say how high. analogicky, ako by ste tu zrovnopravnovali pracu autoinzinierov a dizajnerov s firmou ktora robi reklamny katalog... dve uplne rozdielne veci ktore sa nedaju porovnavat, takze staznost ze za dve linky vodarovi 10.000 a mne za vizual xy je uplne zcestna a typicka pre absolventa s 0 realizacii, nic ve zlym :)

Dátum: 6.12.2006
Od: Ivan
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
navrhujem tuto vetu za myslienku tyzdna

"Preto sa nemôžem podceňova, ale musím pýta aspoň tožko kožko stojí tento pekelný život mňa."

Dátum: 5.12.2006
Od: Ivan
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
To ma tesi, aspon vidim ze aj iny maju podobne problemy..Napr ja mam problem vysvetlit niektorym ludom, ze preco vlastne je ta zalezitost taka draha...Niekto je schopny vysolit vodarovi, alebo elektrikarovi 10.000 za to ze za 10 min zakresli v acade 4 ciary a da tam legendu a na druhej strane nieje schopny zaplatit 7.000 korun za 3 dni celodenneho sedenia za PC..A s tou kvalitou mas uplnu pravdu..Mnohi niesu schopny pochopit ze pre siroku verejnost, je kvalitna vizualizacia jediny sposob ako im priblizit projekt..ved co momentalne predava a priblizuje verejnosti River park, III. Veze, mestske vily Horsky park, Karloveske Rameno,Rozadol atd...predsa kvalitne spracovana graficka cast projektu a cenim si, ze to tyto investori to pochopili...na prezentacii jedneho z tychto projektov som pracoval sam pol roka a ked si spocitam investicie ako nove PC za vyse 40.000,benzin,elektrina,zdravie,nervy a porovnam to s konecnou sumou za vykonanu pracu, tak zistujem, ze vlastne to co som dostal zaplatene, je uplny zlomok toho aku sluzbu to splni objednavatelovi..mimochodom uz nikdy by som sa do nicoho takeho podobneho nepustal sam a za tak mizerne ohodnotenu pracu...Preto v tomto pripade zistujem, ze pri tejto praci aku robis ty je najlepsie fungovat samostatne ako dodavatel,bez ziadnych prac dohod ani uvezkov a tym padom mozes robit naraz pre X spolocnosti a vsetko si ustrazis sam podla potreby..takto ked si uz najde clovek stalych ludi, vie zarobit celkom slusny balik..

Dátum: 5.12.2006
Od: 666
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
ano, je to o tom, aby nikto nebol ochotny pracovat za 50 Sk/hod, roboty je momentalne dost...

Dátum: 4.12.2006
Od: Ja
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
Ivan,
čítaš mi z duše. Ja len doplním svoju skúsenos, robím iba vizualizácie a v poslednom čase sa dos často stáva, že ma niekto osloví a požiada o cenovú ponuku. Keď poviem kožko by to mohlo stᝠzaďakuje a zmizne. O pol roka sa vráti a ukazuje mi nejakú nie vežmi vydarenú robotu kohosi iného, ktorá stála polovicu mojej ceny. Prejde ďalších pár mesiacov a je ochotný zaplati za novú vizualizáciu toho istého objektu ale odo mňa 2x viac ako som pôvodne pýtal. Prečo? Lebo to lacné sa nedá použi ako vábidlo pre potenciálneho kupca kdesi v časopise či buletíne alebo dokonca na bilboarde. Aký je výsledok? Na šetrení sa minulo 4x viac peňazí ako sa pôvodne zdalo. Takisto už nerobím všetko čo príde a za minimum, aj ja si chcem kúpi byt, auto, ži so svojou rodinou a nie iba v kancelárii za počítačom. Preto sa nemôžem podceňova, ale musím pýta aspoň tožko kožko stojí tento pekelný život mňa. To je základné pravidlo, ktorého keď sa budete vštci drža, nikto nebude robi pod cenu a potom si nielen šéfovia ale aj zamestnanci budú môc kúpi trebárs aj to nové BMW.

Dátum: 24.11.2006
Od: Ivan
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
presne tak..Ono to cloveka na zaciatku bavi..Si vzdy mysli ze ho to strasne naplna a bude to robit stale.Povie si, ved preco nie, ziskam tu skusenosti a nic za to nedam.Vypytam si teda velmi skromne 50sk/h..prvy mesiac uplna pohoda..Prvy a posledny plat ktory si este zvlada uzit..potom pride prvy stres ktory uz neopadne..Snazi sa byt co najlepsi a najspolahlivejsi.Pracuje prescasy 16 hod denne ktore mu nikto nepreplati.To mu samozrejme prinesie este viac roboty a sef si mysli ze ho to v tom zapale bavi.Pomaly zabuda ako vyzera jeho priatelka,rodina, blizky.Potom pride prve osvietenie a povie si, ze bude musiet zmenit pristup a pohlad na robotu.Snazi sa dat najavo ze uz to takto dalej nezvlada a ze aj on ma svoje hranice a nieje handra.Ale nikto ho nepocuva a stale to je horsie a horsie..Jasne to poznam..Po 2 rokoch si uvedomi ze plat ma stale ten isty, ze si tam znicil zdravie a prisiel o 2 roky svojho sukromneho zivota a nijak nepostupil.Stale robi tie iste veci co robil na zaciatku a postupne si uvedomuje ze ho vyuzivaju.Pritom pre seba neurobil nic podstatne co by sa tykalo iba jeho.Ked si sef kupi nove BMW uz strati nervy a na to dava vypoved a sef sa nestiha divit, ved si predsa myslel ze to nerobi pre peniaze, ale pre seba..jasne tuto alibisticku vetu som pocul mnoho krat..Alebo sa mylim ?

Dátum: 24.11.2006
Od: student
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
ja som robil mimo bratislavy za 50 sk/hod. je to podla mna velmi malo a skoro sa za to az hanbim,ale chcel som ziskat prax a tiez nejake kontakty a je pravda ze az tak vela som toho zasa nespravil.na druhej strane som bol dost demotivovany nizkou mzdou. keby mi dali adekvatnu sumu makal by som uplne inak.snazil by som sa im to vynahradit,aby to ze ma zamestnali nepokladali za premrhane peniaze.takze treba najst nejaku zlatu strednu cestu.na zaciatok mozno menej,ale adekvatne....co je adekvatne to je samozrejme otazne

Dátum: 23.11.2006
Od: Ivan
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
Problem sa mi zda aj v niektorych ludoch , ze sa nedokazu ohodnotit..Ked si niekto podla mna vypyta za robotu v AT menej ako 100.Sk/h resp bude suhlasit s mensou cenou tak nech sa tu potom nevyplakava ze ma maly plat ked tymto sposobom sa podiela na degradacii pracovnej sily v tomto fachu..Potom nech ide robit radsej za 700sk/den nejakeho casnika..Ide o to ze mnohe ateliery to zneuzivaju a clovek sa tam iba zodre..ja nemam problem si vypytat 120-250sk/h pretoze viem ze som dobry a robim kvalitne a rychlo..nechcem, sa chvastat, ale vidim to v mojom okoli a viem to porovnat..Som dobry v oblasti vizualizovania a animacii a najviac ma stve ked stretnem niekoho kto je schopny si vziat za kvalitne vykonany robotu pocas vikendu 2000.sk..Robievam pre roznych ludi a verte mi ked niekto nieje schopny zaplatit slusnu sumu za kvalitne spracovane vizualizacie alebo rychlo a kvalitne prevedeny projekt tak je to strata casu a dalej sa pre neho neoplati robit..pretoze ateliery peniaze maju len my ich ucime ze vieme robit lacno a podcenujeme sa..PS: studenti v Nemecku zarabaju 10-14euro za hod cisteho..

Dátum: 23.11.2006
Od: anonymne....
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
uz nie som sice student, mozem ti ale povedat, ze asi 7 rokov dozadu som robil pre jedneho slusneho architekta ako letnu brigadu myslim po 3 tom rocniku na skole...zacinal som na 40/hodina a bol som rad, ze som mohol robit v relanych veciach, aj ked neslo o architekturu ale urbanizmus... po 2 tyzdnom mi sam od seba dvihol na 60 lebo bol spokojny, doteraz sme v kontakte, hoci nespolupracujeme :)
aktualne predpoladam, ze plat absolventa sa pohybuje na sume 100sk/h - ak sa dohodnes na takom sposobe platenia...
tiez som ako absolvent zacinal na 100...a hoci to bolo par rokov dozadu...mam dojem, ze ta cirfa je akosi zamrznuta...100 sa asi dobre povie a rata

Dátum: 12.8.2006
Od: Peter
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
Tolko talentov... stale su na slovenskom webe prezentovane pomerne hrozne veci.Ako to ze tieto talenty este nic neukazali?

Dátum: 11.8.2006
Od: Santa Klaus de Form
Predmet: RE: LOVE
Love hybu svetom, priestorom , architekturou no tak sa nehanbime, ved kazdemu nam na nich zalezi, ved i ty, rozny mudrlant musis z niecoho zit, alebo ta zivy mamina a bavme sa na tomto fore o tom aki su ti studenti nenazrani a ti "autorizovani" architekti financni chudaci ale i napriek tomu nezistni a velkorysi mecenasi a nie ziadna nenazrana slovenska malomestiacka vrstva typicka pre geograficku a socioetnicku polohu.Love love love!

Dátum: 9.8.2006
Od: bucooo
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
... aaaale, cakam stale na junovu a julovu vyplatu, takze je to chabe s mojimi financiami ... ale keby ludia dodrzovali zavazky ... ach jaj ...

Dátum: 5.8.2006
Od: rex fa stu ba
Predmet: RE: Bucoo
Bucoo, ty nemas love, vsak?!Pozdravuj.

Dátum: 31.7.2006
Od: bucooo
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
... yxo, co sa navazas, som odpovedal na minimum, nehovorim, ze by sme mali dostavat vsetci rovanko ... tak sa zbal a zmizni z tohto fora, rypanie tu nepotrebujeme ... a hlavne citaj, ked reagujes, ty demokrat ... a by ma zaujimalo, kolko by si mi dal ty ... ovladam 3Decka, cad, zaujimam sa o architekturu, sutaze, o teoriu a sucasnost, tak skus mi ponuknut plat lepsi, pojdem k tebe ...

Dátum: 29.7.2006
Od: mikurec
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
neviem teda ako je to s ohodnocovanim studentov na praxi na slovensku, ale tu v UK je napr povinna min. 1-rocna prax v atelieri medzi Part II a Part III (co je ekvivalent bakalara a inziniera). mzda vzdy odraza schopnosti studenta, nikdy to nie je nejaky "pausal". tak napr. niekto kto ovlada CAD, 3D, je sikovny dizajner a ma navyse technicke citenie a citenie pre detail, bude urcite lepsie ohodnoteny ako cisty CAD-kreslic. ked som ja bol v tomto postaveni pred cca 6 rokmi, dostaval som £15tis rocne, co je v podstate "slusne minimum" na prezitie v UK. dnes s plnou kvalifikaciou je to samozrejme uplne inde.

Dátum: 28.7.2006
Od: yxo
Predmet: FICOVINY...
tieto ficovske prispevky su priam necitatelne...
co moze absolvent ponuknut za kilo na hodinu? vsetci rovnako? alebo ti lepsi sa uskromnia a ti horsi budu radi, ze sa ti lepsi uskromnili? Vazeni, socializmus skoncil uz dost davno, ale zda sa, ze aj Vasim pricinenim ho tu mame o5...

Dátum: 28.7.2006
Od: bucooo
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
ciste kilo na hodinku, nizsie by absolventi urcite nemali ist a je to pekne okruhle cislo a dobre sa to pocita :)

Dátum: 28.7.2006
Od: Meno
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
Seriozne, zaujimalo by ma, kolko sa plati na slovenku za pracu pre absoloventov FA STU. Je tu niekto, kto pracuje pre architektonicku firmu a chcel by sa podelit s nami o informaciu o svojom plate, aby sme si mohli urobit nejaku predstavu, kde sa trh s pracou v atelieri momentalne nachadza. Myslim, ze o tom je tato tema. Pomohlo by to ludom, ktory si hladaju pracu, aby vedeli, kolko si mozu zapytat. A tiez zamestnavatelom, aby vedeli kolko by mali zaplatit, aby im sikovneho cloveka neprebrala ina firma. Moj osobny nazor je, ze aj napriek velkemu poctu absoloventov je tazko najst do atelieru schopneho mladeho architekta na ktoreho by sa dalo dlhodobo spolahnut, kedze vacsina z nas ma po skole velke ambicie a trpime nadmernym sebavedomim. Momentalne viem o niekom, kto plati studentovi architektury po stvrtom rocniku 80 Sk/hodinu cisteho. Nemyslim si, ze je to vela, ale ani malo. Tiez viem, ze s tym ako bude jeho produktivita rast bude rast aj jeho financne odhodnotenie.

Takze otazka - ake je financne ohodnotenie absoloventov?

Dátum: 13.7.2006
Od: AA (anonymna architektka)
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
Ak som si dobre vsimla, tema bola "financne ohodnotenie absolventov architektury v Bratislave a okoli". Vsetci dobre vieme, ze v mnohych krajinach su platy ovela vyssie, nez na Slovensku. Samozrejme su aj krajiny, kde su platy nizsie - ale tie Vas, malozarabajuci zaciatocnici, asi moc nezaujimaju. Preto nechapem, co stale rozpravate o platoch v inych krajinach - na to sa Vas nikto nepytal...Nemyslim si, ze tu zijeme v idealnych podmienkach, ba naopak, ale skusme vychadzat z toho, co mame - a reagovat na dane skutocnosti. A danu temu.

Dátum: 12.7.2006
Od: michal
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
souhlasím
bez praxe je mnohdy krize nekoho zamestnat, často se musí vysvetlovat zakladni veci, a prace trva daleko dýl. takže prvni je treba opravdu získat zkušenosti a pak si začít vyskakovat. Porovnavat plat. podminky se zapadem je trochu mimo - jsou tu jiné podminky v kterých žijeme všichni. takže ani pri dobre vuli tu nejde nabidnout srovnatelny nastupni plat.

Dátum: 12.7.2006
Od: snov
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
najviac ta zaujíma ake budes mat financné ohodnotenie, ale to ci si popri skole niekde robil, co mozes ponuknut, co vlastne chces robit to tu nepises. Si viem predstavit, ze vyska platu absolventa na zaklade týchto determinantov moze byt ale strasne rozdielna.
pokial si student, tak ti odporucam cim skor niekde zacat pracovat, je v podstate jedno kde/hlavne nie u nakeho insitaka/, aby si potom,ked ta skola vykopne, mohol novemu zamestnavatelovi povedat ze mas prax. To zvysi tvoju cenu dost razantne - hovorím z vlastnych skusenosti.

Dátum: 12.7.2006
Od: bucooo
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
... jakoze ciste kilo od hodiny, ci tu travime wikendy, noci, to je jedno, jednoducho kilo na hodku a je jedno, kto co robi, ci nerobi ... ziadne odmeny a motivacia pracovat nizka, zvysenie platu nemozne ... skor motivacia tu sediet ... a fnemenovanej krajine vysnivanej som uz po 3 mesiacoch mal zvyseny plat, po kazdej odpracovanej hodine nad 40 hodin tyzdenne dvojnasobok hodinoveho zarobku a za wikendy automaticky dvojnasobok hodinovej mzdy ... na to si tu este pockame riadnych par rokov, ci mozno desatroci ... B!

Dátum: 11.7.2006
Od: bko
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
ako student som robil na projektoch so svojim konzultantom atelieru. podla velkosti projektu a mnozstva prace sme sa dohodli na sume. vacsinou to bolo okolo 15-20 tis. ked som to spravil za tyzden mal som to za tyzden ked som nemal tolko casu mal som to za mesiac. myslim ze aj v tomto je problem. niekto pracuje na veci tyzden a zatial ini ju spravi za mesiac ale odmena je rovnaka. teda v atelieri kde som robil to tak bolo, ja som map veci spravene skor ako ostatny ale odmena bola rovnaka. casto som robil okrem acad aj 3d a ohodnotenie bolo rovnake ako u ostatnych co robili len acad. vraj robota ako robota.

Dátum: 10.7.2006
Od: student II.
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
podla mojich zkusenosti brigada 50-80 sk v čistom. zavisi na druhu prace, a prac. pomeru

Dátum: 9.7.2006
Od: student
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
myslel som si ,že diskuzia bude otvorenejšia. ale zatial vetšina príspevkov je silno imaginárna a začínajúcim studentom moc nepomože.

Dátum: 9.7.2006
Od: architekt
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
tú stupiditu som nenapísal ja, ale niekto pod mojím menom...len tožko

Dátum: 8.7.2006
Od: Martin
Predmet: RE: architekt
Gratulujem Ti, uz si sa ohodnotil.

Dátum: 6.7.2006
Od: architekt
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
no len aby sa ti nepodlomili nozicky

Dátum: 6.7.2006
Od: Martin
Predmet: PRE: Architekt
Architekt, skus povedat, kolko by si si Ty vypytal!!!(..keby si bol teraz student..)
Samozrejme ak chces, nikto Ta do toho nenuti, ale ked si uz raz do diskusie prispel..je to na Tebe..

Dátum: 5.7.2006
Od: NA
Predmet: SLOVENSKU
PO SLOVENSKY...a aj so slovenskym ohodnotenim

Dátum: 5.7.2006
Od: architekt
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
"studentka" je neviem od školy nie som v BA. Ale podža mňa zarob tožko aby si si v septembri nepovedala
"ja ..." mohla som sa radšej opažova...:-)))
všetko dobré a pekné leto Ti želám

Dátum: 5.7.2006
Od: studentka
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
pre architekt: dik za radu, ale tak nepovies mi nejake to cislo, aby som sa neokaslala?:)

Dátum: 4.7.2006
Od: Martin
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
A este maly dodatok... ak este stale chcete byt "velkymi architektami" tak dalej ani necitajte, ale ak by niekto chcel pracovat na zaujimavych projektoch do UK, NL,... a je tak trosku konstruktersky mysliaci a ma skusenosti s 3D tak sa mi kludne ozvite a snad aspom zopar z vas zmeni nazor.... pracovat mozete aj v BA ;) a robotka je pohoda.

Dátum: 4.7.2006
Od: Martin
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
Prepacte, neda mi to zareagovat. "svf /viem to sa celkom nerata/"... chudacke a prizemne a to nebudem komentovat ako si namyslate vy statici na SvF. Je vela ludi z Fa ako aj SvF ktori nestoja ani na obzretie a stale sa niekto povysuje nad toho druheho a stale pocujem daku "nevrazivost" medzi tymito skolami. Ale kazdopadne existuju aj sikovni z oboch/styroch skol. (VSVU, Kosice) Skola neznamena dnes bohuzial viac ako 20% co si odnesiete do praxe a preto aj vela takych konci dakde uuplne inde, ako pri architekture, ci designe, stavarine ... Ale k teme. Ako student si nie najzaujimavejsi pre fy. Preto mozno aj ta cena bude taka aka bude. Bohuzial.... uz len preto, ze ako tu uz bolo spomenute, fluktuacia zamestnancov. To sa velmi tazko pracuje, ked ludia, ktori by mali tvorit jeden team sa stale menia. Preto aj zo zaciatku zamestanavatel si ta musi otuknut, aby ti neskor mohol doverovat a tym padom ta aj patricne ohodnotit. Pretoze, preco by ti mal platit neviem aku mzdu, ked mu, dajme tomu v polke projektu povies, ze koncis a ides trebars do USA, IRA, ci UK kde dostanes niekolko krat viacej. Ale zober si, ake su tam ceny..ale to tu nebudem rozvadzat, mam stym svoje skusenosti a viem o com to je. Takze cena za tvoju pracu, neviem co vies a co nie, ale za dake kreslenie v Cade, co by malo by uz samozrejmostou min 3tiaka na VS ti dat viacej ako 100Sk/h by bola sialenost od zamestnavatela. A to by si mala este aspom min krasne zadakovat, ze mozes nabrat prax a urcite know-how. A este raz, to nevie zamestnavatel ci mu zostanes vo fy, alebo pojdes "skraslovat" UK, IRA alebo USA...EU...

Dátum: 3.7.2006
Od: michal
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
vřele doporučuju všem nadejným mladým eléfúm trochu praxe v prubehu studia. určite jim to potom usnadní jejich postavení , když si pujdou hledat praci po zkončení školy ,zvýší jim to jejich vlastní cenu na trhu práce a postaví do reálu. Darmo plačete nad tim jak jste podhodnocováni, pravda je však taková že bez praktických a tech. zkušeností (které chybí hodne absolventum ) se dostáváte do pozice kresliču. a v praxi mít jen "užasné idei" bohužel nestačí. Je treba si uvedomit i pomer vᚠvýkon x výkon profesionala - cena vaší práce x cena práce prof. - a pridat k tomu čas co je potrebný na vaše vedení. Z vlastní zkušenosti mužu říct že někdy je výhodnejší se první roky uskromnit - získat práci v renom. atelieru, která mne posune profesne dál i když to bude za symbol. odmenu - než jít jako absolvent za ziskem a začít kreslit všechny ty dokonalé stavby na okolo.
nekdy platí staré dobré - less is more, vše je otázka priorit.

Dátum: 26.6.2006
Od: bko
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
co napisal architekt, to je velka pravda. ja som nebrigadoval ani jedno leto ked som bol na fa, aj ked to bolo povinne, kazdy vie ako to chodilo. a niesom o nic mensi. prakticke skusenosti som ziskal pocas ing studia ked so robil pre konzultantov z atelierov.

Dátum: 26.6.2006
Od: architekt
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
"studentka" kasli na brigadu a uzivaj si leto...este sa narobis dost ale tieto studentske roky Ti nikto nevrati...:-)))

Dátum: 25.6.2006
Od: studentka
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
chcela by som sa spytat, kolko asi zaraba student v atelieri v ba, cez leto brigadujem a nechcem sa okaslat..dakujem za radu

Dátum: 19.6.2006
Od: slovak
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
konečne robko,8 rokov sme čakali spasitela tvojho formatu - všechno umím všechno znám.

Dátum: 19.6.2006
Od: robert fico
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
uz to bude len lepsie!

Dátum: 17.6.2006
Od: lukasK
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
a ked uz nic ine, tak zbalit kufre a hybaj do CR....ale to nie je riesenie problemu Slovenska....

Dátum: 17.6.2006
Od: lukasK
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
no, ja som student SvF STU - odbor statika. Raz sme mali prednasku hostujuceho docenta...inak riaditela fy INGSTEEL. Sam povedal, ze ma problem s vysokou fluktuaciou zamestnancov...absolventov. Ale ako sam povedal...sam je ochotny "dobre" zaplatit - len aby si udrzal stabilnych zamestnancov. Je to celkom pozitivny trend...aj ked priznavam nie vsade je to tak - bohuzial. Problem vas architektov do istej miery je, ze vas je vela. Fastu, svf /viem to sa celkom nerata/, VSVU, Kosice..... dost.

Dátum: 17.6.2006
Od: bko
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
pre vsetkych: ked absolvent v usa moze zarabat 5x viac, tak potom to chcem aj ja. o co su amici lepsi ako slovaci? odpoved: o nic. komu sa nepaci ako to je na slovensku nech odide. tak som to spravil aj aj a som s tim rozhodnutim spokojny.

Dátum: 16.6.2006
Od: slovak
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
Mily Milan,
asi by ti prospelo zohnat si nejaku super zakazku a vyskusat si to teoretizovanie v praxi od studie, zmluv, preokovavania az po kolaudaciu,aj s tym zamestnavanim mladych neuznanych architektov, mozno by sa tvoja agresivita premenila na pozitivne vyuzitu energiu. Prajem vela zdaru.

Dátum: 14.6.2006
Od: Milan
Predmet: BLEEEEEEEE
Jasne blee Ty vies o com hovoris-robis dvojdomy v Dunajskej Luznej,vozis sa na Daewoo Espero alebo mas Fabiu a bol si uz aj v Anglicku.Snazis sa a nejako sa prebijes,dokazes ist v lete do chorvatska a v zime ak Ti vyjde cas tak ides s kamaratmi na chatu.Zamestnavas dvoch studentov,davas im 80 Sk na hodinu hrubeho a hovoris im,ze mozu byt vdacni za ponuknutu sancu.Mudrlant jeden.

Dátum: 14.6.2006
Od: architekt
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
Jenifer, súhlasím s Tebou, ale myslel som to ináč a síce ide o to aký študenti sa dostanú cez prijímacie pohovory na FASTU...
Milann aj s Tebou v podstate súhlasím ale je fakt aj to, že nie malé ateliéry s nie malými akciami sú rovnako lakomé na svojichĄžudí... Je to aj otázka charakteru. Nie každý absolvent má na to aby si otvoril ateliér, treba na to aj istú guráž. Je hanba pre tých čo si nevážia prácu nižšie postavených, ktorý na nich muklujú.

Dátum: 14.6.2006
Od: Milann
Predmet: Pre Bleee
No ten cennik bol zruseny na zaklade vyhrady zo strany EU, a stale existuje ako "len" ako odporucanie. Kedze sa na nom zhodli viaceri architekti, povazujme ho ako vychodzi bod o diskusii za cenu zakazky. Predpokladam, ze mal by pokryt naklady na vypracovanie projektu a primeranu proviziu pre kancelariu. Ale ked existuju ludia, ktori podliezaju aj to minimum, ktore stanovene je (bolo), tazko ocakavat, ze zacne kazdy v biznise primerane zarabat. A kedze majitelov atelierov nic netlaci k tomu, aby stanovili primeranu cenu, resp. cim kvalitnejsi projekt, tym vacsia cena, samozrejme, ze ich ludia si to zliznu nizkou mzdou. V prvom rade pokryju naklady kancelarie, svoju proviziu a zamestnanci dostanu zvysok, to je jednoducho normalne. Ale ak by existovala minimalna mzda za pracu v atelieri, museli by prestat s akciovymi cenami a zacat sa spravat trhovo. Pozri: Ako zamestnanec architekt viem, ze moj plat sa bude pohybovat na urcitej urovni. Kto mi da menej, na toho sa vykaslem, idem k tomu, kto mi da aspon tolko. Ten co nadalaje okrada svojich ludi, zrazu nema zamestnancov, nedokaze spracovat projekty v dohodnutom termine a kvalite, nema dalsie zakazky, krachuje. Poctivy majitel, ktory spravne oceni svojich zamestnancov, ale ziskava. To uz Ford si vsimol, ze spokojni zamestnanci vyprodukuju viac a firma rastie. A vyriesil by sa aj prebytok absolventov: Ak musis niekoho dobre zaplatit, das si pozor, koho zamestnas. Ked je raz neschopny, tak proste ho nezamestnas. Oddeli sa zrno od pliev a bude to vyhodne pre obe strany. Ale teraz je to v podstate jedno. Sak kazdy porobi par mesiacov v nejakom atelieri, potom zduchne k niekomu inemu az kym si nespravi peciatku. Proste, aj architekti si budu musiet osvojit strategiu obchodu, personal managment a pod...

Dátum: 14.6.2006
Od: Jenifer
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
Dovolujem si oponovat: myslim si, ze nejde len o podmienky na FASTU (aj ked je to jeden z problemov), ale hlavne ide o toho-ktoreho studenta, resp. absolventa/architekta. Skola ma dat len "navod na pouzivanie", ostatne je na jednotlivcovi...

Dátum: 14.6.2006
Od: architekt
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
problém je inde kolegovia
aj iné komory či organizácie majú svoje interné cenníky, napr. právnici. nikomu to neprajem ale raz keď sa dostanete do situácie, že budete potrebova právne služby, skúste nejakému pánovi doktorovi /JUDr./ zača zjednáva cenu a uvidíte najkratšiu cestu z kancelárie.
medzi právnikmi jednoducho tvrdo platia percentuálne podiely, prípadne pevné ceny za úkon a rozdiely v cene sú len minimálne. //dúfam, že tu nikto nezačne o tom "aký sú právnici špiny".....// tu sa začína konkurencia nie len cenová ako je to v našom prípade ale aj kvalitatívna. a to by sme mali dosiahnu aj my. ak sa nájdu tĺci, ktorí budú robi projekty Rd za 35.000,- tak sa nič nezmení lebo Slováci potrebujú "akciové" ceny. a čo sa týka množstva absolventov, možno ich je veža ale nie mnohí za vožačo stoja...poznáme pomery na Fa STU nie ???

Dátum: 14.6.2006
Od: Jenifer
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
Bleee trafil kliniec po hlave! konecne niekto, kto ma vecny (no, povedzme skoro vecny :-) komentar...

Dátum: 14.6.2006
Od: bleee
Predmet: pre raskolnikov
ja som sa ho tiez snazil drzat, ale okolie dava ceny aj niekolkonasobne nizsie... a investori na Slovensku este stale vyberaju podla ceny a nie podla kvality! takze ked navrhnes niekomu cenu za rd 100 a ini navrnu 30, hadaj, kto dostane zakazku? myslis si, ze pri takychto cenach sa da zaplatit absolvent podla jeho predstav, alebo podla financnych moznosti? keby si tito ukrivdeni naivisti, ktori sa tu vyplakavaju spocitali dva a dva, tak by prestali tliachat...

Dátum: 13.6.2006
Od: raskolnikov
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
blee-jasne ze cennik je zruseny, drzat sa ho ale mozem. ci nie? mam skusenost ze sa ide pod cenu a kompenzuje sa to proviziami co odmietam!

Dátum: 13.6.2006
Od: bleee
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
vazeni, neviem kolki z Vas robia vo fachu, ale z Vasich reci mi vychadza, ze nikto... predpokladam, ze ste studentici, ktori su stale utvrdzovani vo svojej vynimocnosti a nadpozemskom povode...
komorovy cennik bol zruseny uz asi pred rokom (pre milann)
kolko ludi vyprodukuje FASTU, SFSTU a kosicka technika rocne? ak by ste rozmyslali, zistili by ste, ze na nas trh to je straasne vela, takze, ked je niecoho vela, klesa cena... klasicka reakcia trhoveho prostredia... takze, ak sa Vam nepaci pracovat doma, chodte von, po piatich rokoch sa vratite, urobite komorove skusky a mozete si vyskusat zamestnat nejakeho cerstveho absolventa! zelam vela zdaru...

Dátum: 13.6.2006
Od: Milan
Predmet: mily myslitel : )
mily : ), ty si (prepac) strasny hlupacik, uz si videl ziveho architekta?

Dátum: 13.6.2006
Od: milann
Predmet: pre :-)
No az tak zle sa nemaju. Ked uz maju ten byt v BA, nejake to luxusnejsie auticko (alebo aj viac), sem-tam nejaky vyletik... A co keby sme sa na to pozreli inak: Momentalne nie su nijako motivovani, aby dojednavali adekvatnu cenu za projekt (kolki dodrziavaju komorovy cennik?), pretoze vedia, ze mozu svojich ludi zaplatit pod cenu. Tazke v pohode dojednavaju zakazky pod cenu, alebo dokonca za nejaku protisluzbicku (aj to sa stava), pretoze vedia, ze oni maju svojich par desiatok tisic istych a mlad nech robi. A pozrite si, kolko miliard sa rocne v stavebnom biznise sa otoci. A kolko roznych ludi participuje na tomto kolaci: Dodavatelia, banky, realitne kancelarie... Pozrime sa na vec trochu trhovo a podme sa bavit o tom, preco je architektonicky biznis deformovany...

Dátum: 13.6.2006
Od: architekt
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
pre ":-)"
buď si robíš dobrú srandu alebo si riadny dement !!!

Dátum: 13.6.2006
Od: sisala
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
Drahý :), tvoje všeobecne vtipné poznamky už asi nikoho nebavia. Diskusia mala by o poradení niekomu lenže, ako vždy, sa do diskusie priplietli žudia, ktorí vedia len kyda jednen na druhého. Na také veci si vymyslite novú tému, napr. Kto je väščí podvodník a darmožráč. A ak sa takto vyjadrujú architekti, tak je to smutné.

Dátum: 13.6.2006
Od: :-)
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
Este pre upgradnutie diskusie: a zamyslel sa niekto z tych "mladych, zle zaplatenych architektov" nad tym faktom, ze mozno ti "podvodnici" nezarabaju tolko, ako ini "podvodnici" napr. v EU alebo USA a ze sa snad z toho odvijaju platy "zle zaplatenych, mladych, inteligentych, genialnych..."? Ci to je uz privela rozmyslania?!

Dátum: 12.6.2006
Od: milann
Predmet: vseobecne robit pre slovensku firmu je trestom...
Zda sa, ze asi musime pockat, az podvodnici ako ste uvadzali vo svojich prispevkoch vyhynu. Bude to trvat asi poriadne dlho, ale na tom zaspatom Slovensku uz asi aj leti ide pomalsie.
Je samozrejme jasne, ze nastupny plat bude vzdy nizsi ako architekta hoc aj s minimalnou praxou, ale pytam sa, preco by mal mat vysokoskolsky vzdelany clovek, ktory ma urcitu mieru zodpovednosti nizsi plat ako obycajny pomocnik na stavbe (na porovnanie: min 120Sk/hod v BA), ktory musi davat pozor, aby mu tehla nespadla na nohu.
Preco ale maju nielen mladi architekti tak malu mzdu ma mnoho pricin. Ci uz tym, ze si mladi architekti nemozu zo zakona (!) zalozit vlastny plnohodnotny atelier (to kritizovala aj EU), vyukou na skole, ktora je dost mimo praxe, mnoho absolventov, ktori sa koncentruju na jednom mieste (BA) a pod.
Riesenim je alebo zduchnut za hranice tohto zakapaneho podtatranskeho tigra, alebo tlacit na regulacie trhu prace.
Co tak navrhnut, aby etickym pravidlom autorizovaneho architekta bola aj adekvatna mzda (kolko asi ?) zamestnancom ?

Dátum: 12.6.2006
Od: :-)
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
bko: prosim, ostan tam, je tu dost takych, ktori si nemyslia ze slovensko je vysmech a chcu aj nieco uzitocne, alebo pekne, alebo dobre - urobit.

Dátum: 11.6.2006
Od: bko
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
pre :-} nad green card zatial neuvazujem ale teoreticky je to dalsi krok po h1b vizach. treba zotrvat v usa okolo 5-6 rokov, poslusne platit dane a nerobit moc bordel. potom zacvakat sumu okolo 80000$ a malo by to vyst. dalsia moznost je loteria ale treba mat stastie. ja sa tu zatial nehrniem ostat viac ako 6 rokov, z ameriky a jej kultury niesom zrovna uneseny, casom sa ukaze.

Dátum: 11.6.2006
Od: bko
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
slovensko je totalny vysmech, a nielen architektom. to iste plati o pravnikoch, lekaroch atd. hoci na slovensku zarobi absolvent prava viac ako abs arch, v porovnani s eu alebo usa je to stale almuzna.

Dátum: 8.6.2006
Od: anarch
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
...aj sam peter eisenman v jednom rozhovore neodporucal mladym ludom studovat architekturu, ale radsej pravo.. :)

Dátum: 8.6.2006
Od: :-(
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
blee, ci blaa-blaa, staci si precitat tvoj prispevok a vieme: architekti su sraci, superstar - to je ono!

Dátum: 8.6.2006
Od: bleee
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
a finalisti superstar si pytaju za vecer aj 100 000,- sk... staci sa prihlasit!!! kedy si uz tito mali sraci, ktorym je vstepovane, ze architekt je pan boh, uvedomia, ze to nieje pravda?

Dátum: 8.6.2006
Od: :-)
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
...ved vravim, netreba studovat architekturu ale nieco ine! alebo vobec studovat, to sa pri castingu predsa nevyzaduje...

Dátum: 7.6.2006
Od: raskolnikov
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
architekt-kamaratka bola nedavno na hostes-castingu, kde jej ponukali 10.000/den!!! akcia pre Mtv ma trvat 9 dni =90.000!!!

Dátum: 7.6.2006
Od: architekt
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
pre ":-("
poriadne dementná pripomienka...ty si pravdepodobne jeden z tých čo chodia s s mastnou hlavou, neumytými zubami ale s knihou pod pazuchou. A práve aj ty si problém spoločnosti. pokiaž budú existova taký "nenáročný" ako ty tak budú platy aké sú...
A samozrejme, že nejde len o peniaze...ale bez nich to tiež nejde. Architektúra je zodpovedná a náročná profesia tak by mala by aj patrične ohodnotená a nie, že nejaká mladá hosteska na Conecu zarobí za týždeň 10000,-. Sme chorá spoločnos.

Dátum: 7.6.2006
Od: potkan
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
mily moj, nie kazdy sa narodil jako rentier...
samozrejme ze ma nezaujimaju len financie, kebyze hej tak sa na atelier vykaslem a vrhol by som sa cojaviem napriklad do cg grafiky, ale su aj take veci na svete ako ucty, decka, zena na materskej, hypoteky... ale to tych "ozajstnych" architektov nemusi zaujimat zeano. smutne je, ak absolvent po skole sa svojou profesiou neuzivi na urovni civilizovaneho cloveka.

Dátum: 7.6.2006
Od: :-(
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
Z tejto diskusie mi nejako vychadza, ze mladych slovenskych architektov zaujima jedine na tej nasej architekture - peniaze! Iste, bez nich to nejde, ale stale LEN O PENIAZOCH - naco ste teda studovali architekturu a nie, povedzme, pravo?! Byt architektom znamena este aj nieco ine, ako stale meditovat o tom, kde sa da vyryzovat viac. Ale na to ste zrejme dodnes nedosli...takze si len nadalej robte komerc a zarabajte na americkych two-by-four...

Dátum: 6.6.2006
Od: :-)
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
bko: a co green card, myslis, ze dostanes?!

Dátum: 6.6.2006
Od: sisala
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
Tiež som študentka,mala by som pracova cez leto v jednom ateliéri v ZA kraji. Prosim, poradte mi, aka je normalna suma za prace v Autocade, Coreli, 3D, atd. na hodinu, ked som este len student. Aby som sa neobabrala...

Dátum: 5.6.2006
Od: architekt
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
O tých sumách, ktoré tu padajú a konkrétnych menách som počul aj ja... je to nenormálny výsmech na adresu mladých ludí. Je nehoráznos, keď páni majitelia ateliérov vystupujú na verejnosti ako inteligenti a kultúrni žudia a na druhej strane sa takto kolonisticky chovajú k "svojim" žuďom. Treba však prizna, že priestor na manévrovanie im dáva spoločenská situácia. Mladý človek potrebuje peniaze - tak nech maká...a keď nebude jeden bude druhý...
Ale malo by ís trocha aj o morálku nie ??? A ak nie tak veru poďme do tej Ameriky alebo Anglicka.

Dátum: 5.6.2006
Od: milan
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
cim to je ze na slovensku je to tak? inak ako vsasde v eu..

Dátum: 3.6.2006
Od: joso
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
preboha kde to zijeme? v krajine, ktora okrada vlastnych ludi nielen o to materialne, ale aj o moznosti, vizie, ci sny...asi tu ostanu byvat ozaj len cigani, chudobni a ludia ako j&t :(

Dátum: 3.6.2006
Od: bko
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE
mesiac pred promociou som zacal pracovat v atelieri 3m. razy, pohlady, strojove kreslenie v acad, nic tvorive. za 16000 hrubeho. vydrzal som mesiac. frajerka robila u jancinu to iste za 10000 mesacne. zdierac. potom nastupila v pro 5 za 20000. lepsia robota , tvoriva, robili rodinne domy na ciernu vodu tusim. studie a pod. po skonceni fa v july sme odisli do usa na internship. robime ako int. designers. 2000$ mesacne. poziadali sme o predlzenie viz, konkretne o h1b viza a nasli sme si pracu v architektonickom atelieri v denveri. ked to vide bude to za 3200$ mesacne. moja skusenost: viac ako 20000 asi nikde na sk nedostanete, ked chcete robit pre niekoho na sk, tak sa to urcite neoplati, ani v blave. v usa je nastupny plat pre absolventa /s bakalarskym titulom podotikam/ 35000 $ rocne, to vychadza okolo 3000 mesacne. teda pri sucasnom kurze si to kazdy moze lahko zratat. 90000 proti 20000. este raz hovorim o nastupnom plate pre absolventa. ked k tomu pripocitam ze v usa su ceny podstatne nizsie tak to bola pre nas celkom jasna volba nech je nam americka kultura akokolvek protivna, zarobit sa tu da ovela lepsie. dalsie moznosti su v anglicku a irsku ale konkretne cisla neviem. kazdopadne sa vyvarujte atelieru jancina. ten clovek zije este v otrokarskej spolocnosti. hadam ti to pomohlo

Dátum: 3.6.2006
Od: Milan
Predmet: korunka a korunka
Problem je v tom, ze studenti nastupujuci do atelierov sa nechaju podcenit..nie je problem dostat iba 15000 a ked si z toho odratate dan..nuz, postavte sa na vlastne nohy..je to vysmech..a to i v Bratislave tak isto.I pocul som o 13000.....nastupny plat..zivnost..dane,odvody..zostane vam 8 a pol cisteho, mozte si kupit 10 rohlikov, 15 deka tresky a zivot je pred vami.Atelieri vas nezoberu podla toho aki ste dobri, ale kolko pytate koruniek...Takych zdieracov uz ani nikdy nepozdravte.

Dátum: 3.6.2006
Od: Raso
Predmet: RE: FINANČNÉ OHODNOTENIE?
To je myslím dobrá téma i mňa ako práve so školou končiaceho by to zaujímalo...